Wear Your Gun!

A place to discuss what you carry, what you load it with and how you lug it around all day!

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Wear Your Gun!

Postby Tom Givens » Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:11 pm

Carry Your Gun

I have been teaching firearms use for 29 years now, the last eight years full time. I have trained around 1,000 military personnel, a few hundred police officers, and thousands of private citizens. In 2005, Rangemaster will graduate the 20,000th basic course student, plus I have taught another 1,000 students in road classes all over the United States.
A lot of my military and police students have been involved in shootings over the years, as that is in the nature of their jobs. When considering only the private citizen students, however, I know of almost forty who have been involved in shoot-outs with criminals. The students have won in every single case I am aware of. I may not know about every instance when a student defends himself, but I’m sure I know about most of them. Usually, one of the first things a student does after a confrontation is report back to the school that trained him.
To the best of my knowledge, I have had two private citizen students who were killed by armed criminals after their training, in separate incidents. Both had one thing in common- they were not armed when they were killed. For whatever reason, both decided NOT to carry a gun on the fateful day, and both paid with their lives. I don’t care how highly trained you are, a one-sided gunfight is a good way to lose if the other side is the one that’s armed. One thing you will NEVER get to decide is which days you will need your gun. Someone else makes that decision, and you will only be informed at the last minute. That’s OK, as long as you have your gear.

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Postby johnharris » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:49 am

How many of you wake up each morning and decide whether to leave the spare tire in your trunk or not depending on whether you think you will need it?

Isn't your life more important than the inconvenience of having to call a wrecker?
John Harris

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Postby RNMEDIC » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:37 am

On another/similar forum WORLD CLASS firearms instructor, Tom Givens, posted this same item to which I replied, "when Tom Givens (and James Yeager) speak/write (teach in any way on these matters) READ/LISTEN, and above all HEED!" The life you save may be your own. They know whereof they speak.

Tom, I have loaned your latest book to students and STRONGLY ENCOURAGED them to buy their own copy and LEARN it. You have written one of the very finest books of it's type that I have read anywhere. In doing so, you have provided such a tremendous service to those of us who don't have anything like the skill/knowledge/experience that you and James do.

Friends, any chapter of Tom's book is well worth the purchase price, and the total book is worth the cost MANY times over.

Hope this has been helpful to someone. Respectfully, RNMEDIC
"When a nation's freedom fails, the best men rot in filthy jails, and they who cry 'APPEASE APPEASE' are hanged by those who they try to please."
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It's a shame...............

Postby Ed__357 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:48 pm

I try to carry a gun everywhere I go too. And my instructor in Hickman county had similar stories to tell.

It's just a shame that the state of Tennessee is very eager to issue permits to almost anyone, and at the same moment make it impossible for a good "law abiding citizen" to protect themselves by preventing us the ability to carry everywhere we go. And if I choose to carry, I'm no longer the "Law abiding citizen" I'm proud to be.

"Carry everywhere you go" - the company I work for forbids even leaving a gun in your locked car. No guns on property. It would be nice if the state would do something about this so I'd not have to go to and from work disarmed every day. Quit my job and find another you say? Well, I've worked for this company 26 years and make a decent living. What other company will hire me and allow me to bring a gun?

"Carry everywhere you go" - and eat only at Mcdonalds or burger king. Once again THE STATE won't allow me to dine in fine restaurants unless I leave myself prone to assaults.

"Carry everywhere you go" - and keep your frizbees, fishing gear, and kites in your own damn yard, because THE STATE won't let you have fun in the park unless you first disarm for the criminals that have better rights than I do.

"Carry everywhere you go" - just don't shop at malls in Tennessee.

"Carry everywhere you go" - as long as you don't have to attend a meeting or event in a civic center, you might live another day.

"Carry everywhere you go" - as long as you remain in your own house or yard. Because those are about the only places you can LEGALLY carry in Tennessee without fear of being either disarmed or prosecuted by lawyers and politicians that are just as criminal as those that do the attacking.

"It's a shame..............."
It's best to let the world "Think" you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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Postby Tangle » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:20 am

Ed__357,

Lot's of truth in what you say. I see the same thing. I have yet to understand how an individual or business should be able to over-ride a consitututional right.
Things fail, plans fail, people fail; fear never fails; it must be defeated.
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Postby dwaldrip » Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:58 pm

From John Farnam's site: http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2004/31Dec04.html

31Dec04

The Wisdom of Tom Givens

My friend and colleague, Tom Givens, runs Rangemasters, a wonderful retail gun shop and indoor range in Memphis, TN. Tom's students have been involved in more self-defensive shootings than have those of any other instructor I know, including me! Tom is a top-drawer teacher, among the best in the business.

Memphis bears the dubious title of "Crime Capitol of the South, with a homicide rate higher than many towns three times its size. The local PD is politicized, top-heavy, incapable, hopeless. When in Memphis, you are truly "on your own."

Tom recently wrote an essay about the importance of carrying concealed consistently. His wisdom merits emphasis. He describes two of his students who were recent homicide victims in two separate and otherwise unrelated incidents. Both were mercilessly murdered by armed criminals. At the time of their deaths, both were unarmed! All their carefully learned and continuously practiced skills with firearms were of no use to either one. Both held val id CCW permits and owned suitable pistols, ammunition, holsters, etc. They were n ot armed at the critical moment, because of nonchalance, laziness, carelessness, or a deliberate decision not to be armed. We'll never know. However, in one-sided gunfights, it comes as no surprise that both faired poorly.

Tom correctly points out that you will never get to decide which times are the dangerous ones. Someone else will decide that for you, and you'll probably become aware only at the last moment! Since we therefore cannot k now when personal readiness and valor are going to be critical to our continued good health, we must be "ready" all the time. In Memphis (and pr obably where you live too), that means being well trained, audacious, and constantly armed.

We cannot live victoriously when we are continuously unprepared. Tom is right! Be prepared, or go back to eating grass.

Happy New Year to all!

/John

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created on Friday December 31, 2004 23:59:0 MST
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Wear your gun? YES!!!

Postby Pat McGarrity » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:09 pm

Amen David!

Pat
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Postby bass_player » Sat May 28, 2005 9:21 pm

I fear I have made a mistake. I selected a Glock 27 for daily concealed carry, and have been wearing it for a couple of months now. I believed it early on to be an excellent balance of size and .40S&W power. I love the .40 round, and I enjoy shooting the Glock.

I find I can wear it all day and all night long in an Uncle Mike's ankle rig, because it's comfortable there. However, there is a serious speed-of-presentation issue with an ankle rig, so I went to a Kydex paddle holster and wear untucked shirts all the time. That cured the having it handy problem, but started bugging me with my seat belt on, and I won't wear it behind my back for spinal-safety reasons.

So today, I left the gun in the trunk. The wife wanted to switch cars, so I had to get the Glock out of the trunk and move it to the other car. She wondered quite aloud why "that thing has to come with us everywhere." The idea is to not let the gun become a conversation piece, rather I want it to play the role of a discreet safety tool. This whole uncomfortable situation would have been avoided if I had been wearing my gun.

I am now gripped with a desire to sell my peachy-nice Glock 27 (two 9-round mags and a 15-rounder) and buy a Kel-Tec P-3AT I can keep in my front pocket without upsetting anyone. I can load it with RBCD ammo and upset a mugger's central nervous system with it if I need to. Am I crazy? Will this bizarre Kel-Tec fetish pass eventually? Or are there those of you who would just learn to keep the Glock on their waist and get used to it? I just feel weird about giving up a fine $500 Austrian defense pistol for a $200 stovepipin' mouse gun made in Tampa. I don't know. Maybe I should get a life.

Discuss amongst yourselves, I'll make some coffee.
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Postby johnharris » Sat May 28, 2005 9:29 pm

I have been carrying for more than 10 years now. I have gone through many different pistols and revolvers in my search for the perfect self-defense carry firearm. I conclude it does not exist in a single iteration.

For my "business" suits, particularly in warmer weather, I often carry a Colt Pony Pocketlite in a pocket holster.

For cooler weather when I can justify the extra weight with casual clothes and jeans, I switch back to an IWB holster, heavier belt and a Sig229.

Any firearm is better protection than no firearm.
John Harris

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Carry Options

Postby Pat McGarrity » Sun May 29, 2005 10:14 pm

Dear Bass Player:

May I suggest another option? I wear shorts from Cabela's, or their slacks. 511 pants & shorts are good too. I carry a Glock 23 .040, in an Uncle Mike's size 15 inside the pocket holster in my right front pocket, and a Kel Tec 3AT in my left front pocket, in an Uncle Mike's size 1 pocket holster . The outer pockets carry my Fox Labs pepper spray on the left, and my cell phone on the right. There is a pocket for my knife and I keep my keys & wallet in the back pockets.

If you will check with the Kel Tec Owners Group on line, you will see the fluff & buff procedure to make your 3AT reliable. Kel Tec, I think, will do this too, if you contact them and send it in.

John is absolutely correct in that there is no one answer for every situation and I need to start the grill now to cook out, but look forward to discussing solutions for carry with you in the future. Good luck!

Sincerely,

Pat McGarrity
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Postby The Rabbi » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:52 pm

I found the Smith 432PD, .32H&RMag airweight is a very good "always" gun. I slip it into my left hand pants pocket and go. More often I am carrying a .357Mag K-frame under the jacket. But for those quick trips to the grocery the 432 works well.
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Postby SomeGuy » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:30 am

bass,

If you want to carry concealed you should try the CTAC from comp-tac.
If you want to carry open a lot, a better holster is made by Brigade Gunleather. (I carry my G23 in their M6 design.)
J. E. F. II, MSN, RN.
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Postby Waldo0506 » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:07 am

I hope another person doesnt decide I need my gun while I am at school. :oops:
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Re: Wear Your Gun!

Postby Glockster27 » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:16 am

I carry my G27 in a Galco IWB holster every day. It has become so natural for me to be wearing it that I do not notice it is there anymore. I carry mine for piece of mind, because I legally can, to protect my family and just in case. Being without it makes me feel very uncomfortable to say the least.
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Re: Wear Your Gun!

Postby johnharris » Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:31 am

Carrying when an anticipated need exists is a lesson that Knoxville and so many other instances teaches us in the wrong standard for determining whether and when to go armed. We cannot predict the actions of others.
John Harris

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Re: Wear Your Gun!

Postby SomeGuy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:56 am

If you can get the law changed, I will gladly carry to my University. I already carry pretty much everywhere legal. Especially church (and that was before Knoxville, nobody is going to shoot up my church without getting a very angry response from one member...probably multiple members).
J. E. F. II, MSN, RN.
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Re: It's a shame...............

Postby bobsguns » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:44 pm

Ed__357 wrote:"Carry everywhere you go" - just don't shop at malls in Tennessee.



I have yet to see a mall posted in the Nashville/Mid TN area.......................
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Re:

Postby bobsguns » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:47 pm

Tangle wrote:Ed__357,

I have yet to understand how an individual or business should be able to over-ride a consitututional right.



Just as they post a sign that says, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", they can (and should) have this right, IMO. On the flip side, I have told many a business owner that had "No CCW" signs that *I* would no longer shop there & told them why.

I also told them that they were legally & finacially responsible for my safety as well as their other customers. This sometimes gets their attention, IMO.
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Re: Re:

Postby Menzoberranzan » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:09 pm

bobsguns wrote:
Tangle wrote:Ed__357,

I have yet to understand how an individual or business should be able to over-ride a consitututional right.



Just as they post a sign that says, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", they can (and should) have this right, IMO. On the flip side, I have told many a business owner that had "No CCW" signs that *I* would no longer shop there & told them why.

I also told them that they were legally & finacially responsible for my safety as well as their other customers. This sometimes gets their attention, IMO.



Kentucky has a law on the books that allows employees to sue their employers for any disciplinary actions due to the having of a firearm in the employee's private vehicle when parked on the employer's property. http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/237-00/106.PDF

Kentucky has quite a few good firearms laws that we should be looking at replicating here in Tennessee.
When you need the police in 30 seconds, they are only 3 minutes away.
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Re: Re:

Postby tjbert47 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:46 pm

Menzoberranzan wrote:
bobsguns wrote:
Tangle wrote:Ed__357,

I have yet to understand how an individual or business should be able to over-ride a consitututional right.



Just as they post a sign that says, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone", they can (and should) have this right, IMO. On the flip side, I have told many a business owner that had "No CCW" signs that *I* would no longer shop there & told them why.

I also told them that they were legally & finacially responsible for my safety as well as their other customers. This sometimes gets their attention, IMO.



Kentucky has a law on the books that allows employees to sue their employers for any disciplinary actions due to the having of a firearm in the employee's private vehicle when parked on the employer's property. http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/237-00/106.PDF

Kentucky has quite a few good firearms laws that we should be looking at replicating here in Tennessee.




Agreeded! And welcome to TFA Menzoberranzan . 8)
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